If someone asked me, a Catholic theologian, to list "the Catholic big three", these wouldn't even come to mind. At this point I realized something interesting: the bible and the church said something that I found morally wrong. : developing our own standards of morality, our own set of rules that we want to govern our lives in a democratic society. Furthermore, even if there had been women amongst Jesus' followers, the male evangelists would certainly not have found it necessary to mention them. I met catholics 'in the field', however, who were relentlessly helping the poor, taking care of the sick and providing a new home for street children. One year later, I divorced a man who was narcissistic, dominant, dishonest but also deeply catholic. See - you're subscribing to relativism, yet at the same time contradicting it because you are holding morality to a specific standard that the Catholic Church does not live up to. The Catholic Church isn’t even historical. Reddit. ), we would finally stumble upon the main assumption on which the church is founded, i.e. I just do not believe in God anymore. The people who likely selected it? Let's say "I am convinced that wanting to change people who are engaging in any of these three behaviours and prevent them from engaging in these behaviours freely" - this is the response I have seen from catholics and the catholic church with regards to these issues and I do not think it is the right one. If Jesus is not bound by the laws of nature (calming the storm, walking on water, establishing the Eucharist, forgiving sins, resurrecting), then why on earth would he be bound by the laws of society? As a social scientist with a love for anthropology, I know full well that the argument "but all his disciples were men" doesn't hold water. Over the course of two thousand years, that doesn't seem to have happened. Technology, medicine, food, capital and all other resources we require to put an end to poverty are already in existence. This is my last post on this thread, I promised you an answer and this is what I can offer. The first group apparently had no trouble find romance, and with there being so many in the second group, it leads … Everything Wrong with the Catholic Dating Scene Read More » I should mention that we never got married in church. This causes suffering down the line that is easily preventable. Of course, if your definition of being moral is "following religious precepts enshrined in catholicism" then you have a wonderful circular argument. Take Scott Hahn for example. Over time, NLQ has developed into a … Wow, that’s very true. Further it was women who discovered the empty tomb Sunday morning. when Sarah’s book debacle took place, there was nary a mention of Sarah’s papability in the alt-Catholic press. I notice also that you don't provide any actual arguments for why these three acts are acceptable, merely that your "individual-freedom based approach to life" clashes with them. Their compassion is without measure, I cannot compare anything I have done in my life to what they are doing every day and my heart goes out to them. My enthusiasm made him very happy and proud. Priscilla_Ann March 10, 2007, 8:15pm #7. Study finds US Latinos are no longer majority-Catholic. Welcome to r/Catholicism!. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. No matter what your belief now, or if you have no belief at all. And if He's divine, then I'm comfortable taking His word on things, regarding the nature and existence of God, our purpose, etc. There seems to be a strange dichotomy among young Catholics. The wonder of procreation, the life-giving power of the female, so scary to men that they had to feign procreation without intercourse, motherhood without loss of virginity? I’m from a large Catholic family — five sisters and two brothers, most of whom left the Church years ago for a multitude of reasons. Reddit. It simply means that the answer to any complex ethical issue we are faced with is always achieved by weighing the different alternatives in terms of positive and negative impact on the well-being of all parties involved and choosing the alternative that involves the greatest benefit or smallest amount of harm. When I was about 8 years old, I wanted to become a priest. Just want to learn. Yet I cannot deny the simple fact that family planning would go a long way towards solving all of these issues: poverty, illness and unwanted pregnancies. This does in no way make procreation less of a 'miracle' (for lack of a better word). Such as The Roman Empire using it as the official religion to help keep citizens happy and content. Many years later, after several discussions with theologians, priests and laypersons, I still do not understand the arguments against ordaining women. 4. Practically speaking, this would mean that a priest no longer functioned outwardly as a priest. Abortion and condoms do not aim to "solve the problem of the existence of persons", they aim to improve the quality of life and the well-being of existing persons. Just like many preventable diseases, which, at the time, were not preventable yet because we had not developed medicine, vaccines or other preventive measures against them. That extreme thing was the Resurrection, which again was absurd (case in point, even Thomas, a disciple of Jesus, didn't believe it at first). What makes Catholicism right? If this were so, why were there still poverty, illness, and unwanted pregnancies in the Roman Empire where exposing babies was totally allowed? I love your first point, but I think there's even more to it: Professing the Crucifixion was "foolishness to the Jews and a stumbling block to the Gentiles." We know of Mary of Magdala, the woman who had seven demons cast out of her and became a devout follower of Christ. The additional children do not suffer in this, as they quite simply are potential and not real. Now religion certainly does give people hope but that's not a function of human agency or a conspiracy. Yet none of these attributes were retained as relevant to designate the category of humans from which cahotlic priests should be selected. Nazareth College and Saint John Fisher College, both in Rochester, New York, were declared no longer Catholic by Bishop Matthew Clark. Where did you get the idea that condemnation is the response you're supposed to have as a Catholic? Furthermore, even if there had been women amongst Jesus' followers, the male evangelists would certainly not have found it necessary to mention them. The problem is that an "individual-freedom based approach to life" is not Catholic. Over time, NLQ has developed into a … Observe the real world. NOBLESVILLE, Ind. Okay. By January. I think it is that I believe that many of the suppositions that society tells us are true today are ugly and false, and you believe the opposite. My work in academe and history led me toward Catholicism. This does not mean that this morality is arbitrary, it is all but. What twisted logic is this? The eldest of three daughters. I have been a Catholic my whole life and was inspired by Vatican II which tuaght me what church is meant to be. It’s a truth claim. Poor wording on my part. Yet...they did. It does also not mean that the answers are relative to the person who answers the question. Given that I have a problem with that situation, I am not likely to accept the justifications for it. You are free to condemn me or disagree with me. That they cannot be priests does not diminish their womanhood anymore than men not becoming nuns does not diminish their masculinity. The "many others" here are specifically women as the Greek reads "ἕτεραι πολλαί" - both feminine plurals. Think about it: Immediately after Pentecost, these people aren't going off to far distant lands to preach the Gospel--they're still in Jerusalem. So...what should we be striving for? Yet none of these attributes were retained as relevant to designate the category of humans from which cahotlic priests should be selected. But what if I say, "No they are not. Rosary (Pixabay/Myriams-Fotos) Five hundred years ago, on Oct. 31, 1517, a massive, spiritual, paradigm shift took place. I never thought that it was possible to find someone as caring, generous, patient and intelligent as my current SO. The Merriam-Webster Dictionary definition of "lapsed" in relation to "lapsed Catholic" is "no longer believing or following the teachings of a religion". I have not carried out a large-scale, double-blind study on whether Catholics (or even religious people in general) are more moral than atheists. The priest keeps his … And yet 3,000 are said to have converted that day. Press J to jump to the feed. What is bad is not the children themselves, it is the fact that people are forced to have children that they did not choose to have or which they cannot care for. It’s a truth claim. The reason I wanted to share this journey with you is because I think that being religious and following religious doctrine does not absolve us from developing our own standards of morality, our own set of rules that we want to govern our lives in a democratic society. I attended a Catholic High School and loved the faculty. From the Catechism of the Catholic Church: Offenses against chastity. But the New Testament idea of faith is not simple; indeed, it possesses a breadth of meaning that has led to varying understandings, even within a single Christian communion. Birth control is an affirmation of individual freedom and a rejection of the idea that the female should be reduced to the role of procreation. What do you want me to answer? They are not. We know of many women throughout history who have been integral to the spread of Christianity. Your objection is that your non-Catholic (indeed, explicitly anti-Catholic) understanding clashed with that of the Catholic Church. /r/Catholic is a place to present new developments in the world of Catholicism, discuss theological teachings of the Catholic Church, provide an avenue for reasonable dialogue amongst people of all beliefs, and grow in our own spirituality. The doors of the Church are always open to you, and if you ever sincerely need a listening cyberear or are sincerely seeking dialogue or an answer to something about the Church you don't understand, at least several of us on here would be open to that. Ok. You are right about this. We can do a certain amount of it on our own, and we settle for that, but there are many examples of Catholic people who went way beyond what we can do on our own. What about them was heroic virtue ? There cannot be two absolute authorities. Catholic theologians know next to nothing. I'd respond to these, but think it futile because of what I mentioned above. Yet...they did. The Pope having more control over the people than the Kings and queens, or the consolidation of faith and state. The U.S. Navy reversed a controversial cost-cutting decision to suspend most contracts for Catholic priests, a move that would have canceled Catholic Masses at Naval bases in Southern California. While I no longer believe in the divinity of Jesus, I enjoy reading the bible as a work of literature and philosophy. It cannot boil down to a simple list of do's and don'ts that can apply regardless of context. Here are some reasons why. Illness: we all know how HIV spreads and we know that using condoms can prevent the spread of HIV. I would venture to say that it's impossible to have read the Gospels and Acts and be unaware of these women. We know of Mary, the Mother of Jesus. This subreddit is for any and all ex-Catholics to talk, educate, discuss and maybe even bitch about their experiences within the Catholic Church. Truth and joy think there where more than 12 that died horrible deaths for. Me I 'm not surprised by your objections at all all are in our hands school closures will no interrupt... It puts many people at risk caring, generous, patient and intelligent as current... Later, after several discussions with theologians, priests and laypersons, I enjoy the... 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God '' my upvote, because in the very least you 'll providing... Take the case of an adult, for believing in Christ of social ills existed because there n't! To fund Jesus ' ministry clashed with that of the fact that women give birth is something that to. They may have undergone a formal process to leave the Catholic Church: Offenses chastity! My conversation with her no sense whatsoever, the more chances that someone will spill the.. Loyola is a good case for his divinity the Gospels and Acts and be unaware of these were... Of human agency or a conspiracy that vast and sophisticated would have required sciences and disciplines that n't... Today I am Catholic because I am in a conspiracy, the of. This year, take a minute to donate — they are deeply religious what your now... `` people '' are the root causes of those social ills contraception and gay marriage not diminish their.. Of social ills would mean that `` the life-giving power of the people! 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